Jerry Jones Endorses Legalizing Texas Sports Betting | LSR Podcast 178
Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones recently endorsed legalizing online Texas sports betting, what will that mean for the climate for expanded gambling in the Lone Star State? A bill again emerges in New York to increase the number of online sportsbooks in the state. Plus, the latest on the UFC betting scandal and we run through staff predictions for 2023.
Matt Brown (00:08):
Hello and welcome to episode number 178 at the LSR podcast. My name is Matt Brown, joined each and every week by the brightest minds in all of the gaming industry. With me, I have the top two: Dustin Gouker, Adam Candee. You want to follow them on the Twitter machine and you should, it’s free: @AdamCandee, two E’s no Y, @DustinGouker. If you hate yourself, you can follow me, @MattBrownM2. Everything we do, absolutely free. So please subscribe, rate, review, and if you’re watching us over on the YouTube channel, hit that subscribe button down below. Do appreciate it.
When rich people talk, we listen, especially when it’s in Texas and it has to do with sports betting. We will talk about that, some more stuff coming out from the UFC, gambling, I don’t even know if we’re done with all this. I was going to say, call it. We don’t know how far this thing is going to go and spiral, so we’ll talk about some new stuff that has come out there. We got some staff predictions from the guys over at LSR, as well. But Dustin, let’s kick things off here with New York. We talked about this that hey, listen, maybe some of these states, after they went ahead and passed either some laws and regulations stuff, they might revisit some different things down the line. Figure out if we need to change anything, if we need to do whatever. And this one is actually, maybe some expansion talk.
More New York Sportsbooks coming?
Dustin Gouker (01:20):
Yeah, and we’ll put this with a caveat, who knows? But at least the discussion is being had. But we saw a new bill from Senator Joe Addabbo in New York to expand the number of sports betting operators that they have in New York. This would effectively drive down the tax rate for the existing and any new operators and arguably make it a more sustainable market for all of the sportsbooks that are and want to be in New York.
Now, is this needed? I don’t know, but there’s obviously, we’re always an advocate of a more open market. Even Addabbo, the sponsor of this bill, said this is just a starting point and that they have to prove that this is not just going to lower the tax rate and then it’s not going to hurt the tax receipts that New York has realized in year one of sports betting. So, it’s probably an uphill climb. Certainly, operators are lobbying for the lower tax rate. The operators who are not in would like to be in New York. So there is obviously will on the industry side of this. Is there any will within the New York Legislature to actually, again, effectively lower the tax rate by allowing more operators in? That’s a question. So there’s going to be a lot of maths. I know that Matt, that’s not your huge strong point, but …
Matt Brown (02:33):
Don’t love math at all. Hate it.
Dustin Gouker (02:35):
Matt Brown (02:35):
That’s why we got a calculator.
Dustin Gouker (02:37):
Yeah, we’re going to see some maths put out about whether this makes sense for New York and whether if we add, we can list some of the folks that are not in — Barstool, and 365, Fanatics — that would like to be in New York. Does that move the needle and create enough added volume that tax rate makes sense? Who knows? I’ll go out on a limb and say probably not, especially if we’re getting up to 16 operators and are lowering the effective tax rate to 25%. It’s actually 15 operators. So, we’ll see. A lot to go. I don’t know, I feel like this isn’t going anywhere, but stranger things have happened. And there’ll be a lot of lobbying because, short of other states launching, the operators making a more sustainable environment for themselves in New York is going to be a key point in their futures.
Matt Brown (03:28):
Adam, this might be one of the weird circumstances in which operators might welcome competition, right? Because you would almost think the people that are there would actually lobby for more to get in there, therefore getting a lower tax rate for themselves and them thinking, “Hey listen, we’re already going to have the majority of the market as it is anyway, so we don’t really care if more people come in here.” So, it might be kind of this weird deal where you have some guys going, “No, no, no, we should have more people bring them in.”
Adam Candee (04:00):
Absolutely Matt. We’ve heard operators, pretty much, from the moment they proposed and agreed to this tax rate, complaining about this tax rate. They were the ones who put it out there in the first place. And let’s never forget that, it was made fairly clear by the former administration under Governor Cuomo, that 50% was sort of the suggested tax rate, that nobody who proposed lower than that was really going to have an opportunity to get in. Not that they had to, no, but they did, and 51% is what they agreed to. And, I think, what you’re going to see is not only would they welcome it because of the lower tax rate as you mentioned, the obvious, but they don’t really fear any competition, right? Whoever’s there is pretty well-established at this point. For example, Bally Bet, not to pick on anyone in particular, they just happen to be number nine out of nine when it comes to market share.
Now, they only launched in July, so we’ll give them that caveat. But $338,000 in sports betting revenue. In a state that had 16.8 billion-with-a-B dollars in handle last year. So, do they really worry about what Fanatics or Barstool is going to do to them? No, not at all. So, whether this bill ends up going forward in its current form is highly skeptical, but even Senator Joe Addabbo said, in the story, “Look, we have to get this discussion going again.” Because this bill was here last year as well, and it didn’t end up producing anything, but the operators are going to continue to push for a tax rate discussion. And so savvy legislators are going to have to at least put a bill forward to mollify those operators even if the discussion doesn’t get to where those sportsbooks want it to be.
Matt Brown (05:44):
And Dustin, this is the time where if people are just joining us for the first time or haven’t been longtime listeners where we give our typical spiel of saying, hey listen, whether these guys are going to become actual major players or not or even have any sort of market share, the more, the merrier, the better for the customer, the better for the industry, the better for the market, when people have choices.
Dustin Gouker (06:06):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’ve always been an advocate of that, that yes, consumers should get whatever. I famously only get my one operator, DraftKings, here in Oregon. It would be great if I had more. It’s better for the consumer at the end of the day. And we talk a lot about tax revenue and all of that. This is providing — a lot of this should be, and the framing should be — providing legal and regulated sportsbooks to people who want to use them. Right? And if we don’t have all of them, you don’t need all every last one who wants to be in there, that’s not the argument, but there are several operators who are needle-movers that do not have access and that’s artificial.
Again, I can’t advocate, unless somebody’s going to come in and tell me that they actually do replace the revenue, I’m going to side with New York, do you need to expand this law to let more people in, if all you’re doing is lowering your effective tax rate? That’s a hard argument to make if I’m the state of New York or a legislator. Again, maybe that math works out; we’ll see how Fanatics does. That’s the one, out of all of them.
And again, we talked a lot about 365, those two coming in is interesting, sure. Barstool is around 4% or 5% of market share, nationally. Do they just cannibalize? Do they add a little bit? Maybe? But I still, if you’re going up to 15-plus operators, you have to get to this threshold of, you’re doubling the amount of handle and revenue so that the tax revenues don’t go down. That’s the easy slider math and, unless somebody’s going to provide a document that says, “Yes, we’re going to expand them.” Basically, going to double the market, so we can decrease the tax rate by basically half.
That’s the argument. And I was skeptical of New York at the beginning, and I still think there’s reasons to lower the tax rate. Certainly, for operators, they’re not going to spend to acquire customers as much in New York, and not going to market as much, because that return on each dollar is less. But still, they have this baseline that they’ve set that, again, Adam pointed out, correctly, they all agreed to this, and if they didn’t want to be in, they don’t have to be. So, interesting conversation that is certainly going to, again, this is a conversation starter. I would not expect this to be done this year, but if anything we talk about, you have to start these conversations. The pace of this is not going to always be knee-jerk reactions to whatever the operators want.
Jerry Jones want legal sports betting in Texas
Matt Brown (08:24):
Adam, we said, anytime anything happens in Texas, we are going to be talking about it. We’re going to be writing about it because again, it is a massive, massive market that could really be a game changer. And we’ve talked about several of these very rich, very powerful and very influential people that are within the state that have at least at some point, somewhere along the way, said that they are in favor of that. We know that the Dallas Cowboys owner in Jerry Jones fits into that category, as well. And hey, he spoke this week.
Adam Candee (08:55):
Headline: Man worth $11.4 billion wants thing that makes more money. Film at 11:00. Do we need more? Well, I guess we have a little bit more that we can talk about there with Jerry Jones. So, it’s not necessarily a surprise because he is part of the Texas Sports Betting Alliance, this lobbying group that has put itself together with a lot of the team owners and other stakeholders who are trying to push for legalized sports betting in Texas. Now, we just started the legislative session on January 10th, so we’re in the infancy of the ability to get something moving here, but Jerry Jones did an interview this past week, and I’ll read you some of the quotes from him.
“I think it’s really a thing that needs to be addressed at this time.” He continued later, “All of those things can be enhanced.” And talking about things that can be enhanced, he’s talking about lowering property taxes and increasing educational funding. “Can be enhanced by something that is presently going on in a big, big way, and we should be getting the benefit of it as citizens of Texas. Other states surrounding us are. So, it’s a time I think for us to set the rules up and execute on it and get the benefits of it.” And he’s absolutely right. Louisiana has captured a lot of money, and we talked about the gentleman who sells bedding last week and the fact that that money has obviously been going to Louisiana over the course of time here, and he resides in Texas. So that’s just one example of what we might see.
So, in Texas, there’s a long way to go. We still have almost two full months until a bill actually has to get moving in March for this to have a chance of happening. Remember, of course, in Texas it is a constitutional change. So we’re talking about getting a two-thirds majority and then having voters approve it at the ballot box in November. So, a long way to go. But as we’ve talked about many times on this podcast, Jerry Jones and his $11.4 billion net worth and his franchise that is worth $8 billion do sound quite loud when they decide to use their voice.
Matt Brown (10:58):
And Dustin, he mentions the property taxes there in Texas. So, one of the things that we talk about all the time, there are these states that don’t have state income tax. Of course, Nevada being one of them, Florida being another, Texas being another, but Texas property taxes are astronomical, right? So they make the money back, at least a little bit of it back, along the way. And that has been one of the things that has certainly been a more hot-button issue here, probably, even since COVID came along, where people have a lot more time to scrutinize things, and certainly you start looking at these property taxes in Texas going like, “Hey, why are they so astronomical? What can we do about it?” And so he’s going, I don’t think the low-hanging fruit stuff like they did in California, because I think the property tax stuff truly affects everyone in the state, pretty much.
I mean 80 to 90% of the people that actually appeals to, unlike the homelessness issue in California, where that comes up and we were talking about. I mean, there’s a lot of rural land in California. There’s a lot of people who don’t even see homeless people on a daily basis or live in the suburbs and it doesn’t affect them in the least bit. So at least this isn’t one of those deals where it’s kind of like, oh, let’s bring up this thing in the state that is happening and we’re going to change people’s minds. The property tax stuff in Texas is an actual issue they’ve been talking about for a long, long, long time.
Dustin Gouker (12:13):
And this is exactly how you approach it. You don’t promise this is some huge windfall for Texas, either. I mean, it is new money. It is found money. Whenever you legalize a new form of gambling, found money, that the state was not realizing before. So, it is that, it’s something, but it’s the middle road. It’s already gone on, we should have sports betting, and we should make some money off it. These are the very core; this is what the lobbying playbook has been for the five years that we’ve been doing this. And, yeah, he doesn’t go too overboard.
So, it makes common sense, and I think that’s a winning argument that everybody should be behind. He promised bazillions of dollars, that’s probably not going to happen. Texas has a huge budget. Sports betting, if it is legalized, is a small part of that. But it is new money. I mean, Jerry’s a smart person; he’s hitting the right notes, certainly, there’s probably focus groups. The alliance is, probably, “Here’s what we should be talking about.” And yeah, just the fact that Jerry Jones is using this platform to talk about gambling while his team is still in the playoffs. That’s interesting. People are, it was, basically, just a few sentences, but everyone is going to stand up and take notice because Jerry Jones. And that is weight on the scale for any legislator who’s thinking about whether they should support this.
Matt Brown (13:35):
And Adam, just to put a bow on this. I mean, this is stuff that we’re talking about right now and we’re getting these guys to start to talk about it a little bit. We talked about the Cuban thing before. We know Tilman Fertitta’s stance on this. We know, obviously, the furniture store owner’s stance on this. You get Jerry Jones, whatever, and we don’t even have a bill yet. Right? So, I mean, once a bill is actually introduced, then this is really going to crank up because then we’re going to have something tangible for these people to, in theory, get behind.
Adam Candee (14:03):
And representatives from the Sports Betting Alliance told our Mike Mazzeo, they expect that bill to drop sometime next month, which would, obviously, give time for it to be massaged and evaluated and tweaked to the liking of many different parties. And look, Texas is an enormous state with many different political bents, and it might take some working for it to get through the Legislature and then for it to get through Governor Greg Abbott. So we are absolutely in the infancy of this right now. I would just say that, as opposed to other big states, we’ve talked about Florida, California and so on, and how difficult those were. The tribal interests in those states and their sovereignty made it a lot more difficult than Texas. So, it might not be low-hanging fruit, but it is the lowest of hanging fruit when it comes to the big states.
UFC betting scandal updates
Matt Brown (14:55):
Dustin, we have talked about what went on over in the UFC. If you guys did not catch that, go back a couple of episodes. We talked about it on the pod here at length, where there was a coach and they did some investigations. And listen, some fishy stuff started coming up, and this is what we talk about why legalization is great, why some of these things actually do get caught because you start to get fishy betting patterns, some things start to wave some red flags, and the next thing you know, hey listen, we are able to find out that some stuff was going on. Well, this has actually gone a little bit deeper at this point, and maybe, who knows, by the time they get done with all the investigations, how deep this might have gone.
Dustin Gouker (15:32):
Yeah, this one, I mean, the UFC scandal around this, and I guess I’ll use the term scandal, it was kind of drips and drabs, and this one’s the biggest one for me. The story is now too long that it’s hard to adequately sum up the whole thing. There’s a suspended MMA coach, James Krause, who is at the center of this investigation. There was a fight that was called off because of betting integrity issues, and now ESPN’s David Purdum reported that he was a middleman for offshore sportsbooks and betters. He is responsible for being a go-between for this Antigua-based offshore sportsbook. And this is the one, I don’t know, it’s all problematic, but this is almost the worst one. And this has been going on for years and years, we’re just finding out about it, that nobody had ever really known.
I mean, clearly, probably, people knew, but this is just going on in the background and nobody said boo, and the UFC didn’t do anything about it. And this is where I’ll turn it back to you, as the UFC / MMA expert here. This is pretty bad. This is a bad look for the UFC, and this has been going on in their house, and it does make you wonder now, where is the bottom of this? This feels like it’s not the bottom. I don’t know. I mean that’s speculation, but if this is going on, there’s going to be more people, it seems like, that get wrapped up into all of this.
Matt Brown (16:55):
So Adam, what I’m looking at here on my phone, if you guys are watching, let me first say this, one, don’t do shady things in the first place. Two, if you are, maybe don’t send out text messages like this to groups. This is the fighter that just got suspended by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. “He’s trained with a lot of fighters lives and breathes this sport as a coach fighter and at times has the scoop on injuries, non-announced matchups, and how fighters look in training camps. In stocks, this is called insider trading. In MMA betting, it’s called James Krause knowledge. For the last six months, all my bills, including mortgage and car note, have been paid via Krause’s picks. Do yourself a favor and join the group.”
Just saying, listen, don’t do shady stuff in the first place, but if you are, don’t send text messages to groups of people like this, where it is the most incriminating thing on the face of the planet. I read this and I was just like, “This is … what are we doing here? Has no one learned anything in life?” Again, Adam, I’m not endorsing doing shady things, but, I got to say, when you write stuff like this, I have no sympathy for you, whatsoever.
Adam Candee (18:14):
So, Matt, you think it’s a problem that he compares it to a crime in real life, but then says, when it comes to betting, it’s just James Krause.
Matt Brown (18:27):
Yeah, yeah. That was a …
Adam Candee (18:27):
Matt Brown (18:28):
That was …
Adam Candee (18:29):
Matt Brown (18:33):
That was quite the text that was sent out to apparently a large group of people who he was trying to recruit to join this betting group with James Krause and whatnot. And Adam, let’s go back to, again, before people who don’t know the whole story and, certainly, maybe, are just getting into this. And listen to this guys, if you are a legislator, if you are someone in these other states and you go, “I see this. This is what we’re talking about. This is why this is bad.” Listen, go back and listen to our original podcast anyway, but the CliffsNotes of all this is, in individual sports, such as MMA, such as boxing, such as tennis, weird things like this, fully admit, can certainly happen in a one-on-one situation, where someone has complete control of the outcome of an event.
So Adam, I just want to say that because people go like, “Ah, yeah, see this guy, that’s why he is missing extra points.” And so, I was like, no, man. No. The minimum salary in the NFL is several hundred thousand dollars. Every guy is making millions or whatever. There’s no amount of money that could be made in a gambling situation that would change all of this. So, there’s so many layers to this, why it does not apply to the NFL, to the NBA, to the National Hockey League, any of these major sports where there’s minimum salaries and the minimum salaries have grown so large. And the players that actually could affect the game anyway are the stars, and the stars are making tens of millions of dollars, and so they’re never going to do anything to risk any of that.
So again, just the caveat in all of that because I think that some people can use something like this and take just a snippet and go like, see, that’s why it’s bad and that’s why it shouldn’t happen. But that’s just not the case in the majority of the sports, and certainly the popular sports, that people wager on.
Adam Candee (20:11):
Well, read up on this story, if that’s what you’re thinking because, what we’re talking about right now is, Krause acting as an agent for an offshore, illegal sportsbook. Well, when we talk about the regulated market, when was this caught? This was caught in the regulated market, right? That’s why it was caught. The regulation is the reason that we know about all the other activity that was happening in the shady offshore market. These are the things that can continue on, unfettered, in the illegal market. And there’s a reason we call it the illegal market, beyond the fact that it is violating federal law, when you are wagering with offshores, but also because it allows things like this to go on in a way that the regulated market, yes, obviously, it happened, but the whole idea is, it was caught in the regulated market. So, regulating sports betting isn’t just about capturing tax revenue, it is about keeping the activity above board.
Matt Brown (21:08):
And Dustin, just, I mean, maybe not too little, too late, I mean, whatever. But just, again, from a UFC standpoint, immediately as this came out, all fighters, all coaches, even managers, anything, anyone that could have any sort of information whatsoever about what’s going on in these training camps or injuries and all that stuff, has now been barred from any sort of wagering on the sport at all. So, that should be also mentioned in all this. I mean, again, maybe there should have been the foresight to have that be a policy from the get-go, but that is, at least, the policy now.
Dustin Gouker (21:42):
Yeah, I mean, UFC, at this point, is caught reacting to the news, right? Yes, great that they did that. That was well overdue. But yeah, now, I mean, federal investigations, who knows what’s going to come out of that? That’s the thing I’d be scared about is, how many people are going to get. This is going to hang over the UFC for a while. But yeah, again, this is not “sports betting is bad.” Like Adam said, this is the regulated market catching this. This would still be going on right now, right? If it wasn’t for the logistics around the regulated market, that is why this came to light. So, yeah, this is a poster child, I guess, for both the good and the bad of sports betting. This was caught. It’s going. People are, it happened, but it also was caught because this is being brought into the light in a way that it might not have been or definitely would not have been in the past.
2023 Legal sports betting predictions
Matt Brown (22:33):
Adam, you and the staff over at LSR put together some predictions for the upcoming year as we enter the third week of the month here. So why don’t you kind of run us through what guys were thinking.
Adam Candee (22:47):
So, credit to our Pat Evans for spurring the discussion and getting us a little crystal ball look at next year. And, obviously, the LSR staff has expanded, Sam McQuillan joined us in December, and so we surveyed everyone. Said, “Just give us a little bit of something you expect to happen in the coming year.” And I thought that there were a good variety of answers that came from the staff. I would encourage everyone to read the details at legalsportsreport.com, but I’ll give you a little preview where Matt Waters talks about the expectation of regulation. We have Pat Evans and Mike Mazzeo both predicting which states they think will legalize. And Mike, who’s been covering Texas closely for us, he actually thinks that it’s a possibility in Texas. Sam apparently is our angel of death because he expects that multiple sportsbooks will close in 2023. So, more cheery predictions from Legal Sports Report.
And I talked about the fact that, I think this is the year for the heavyweights. I heard it last year, when it came to 365, that it was going to be a 10-state year. This year, we see that it might actually happen as they begin their push into Pennsylvania. We talked about that and the good signs for 365, if they’re willing to get involved in Pennsylvania. And talked about the fact that ESPN has talked about it and talked about it and talked about it. And again, I think that there’s a convenience there, talking about 365 and ESPN, of them potentially getting together. And we’ve heard from Fanatics that it’s coming, and we know that, later this week, we’re going to see the first retail sportsbook from Fanatics, and, within a couple of months, we’re going to see the tech entry for the first time. So we’ll see what the online actually looks like. Now, what does them getting into it mean?
Matt Brown (24:36):
Adam Candee (24:36):
It doesn’t mean that they disrupt the market to the point where FanDuel and DraftKings are having to redo everything to try to keep up with them, but it does mean that we maybe see a big four be a big five or someone else enter the top four, and we get to reevaluate what the market looks like going forward with some of these bigger players that we’ve been waiting for a long time getting in.
Matt Brown (25:00):
Yeah. Dustin, this is one of the things we kind of did on the pod just amongst us, a little bit ago, where we kind of looked into the future and some of the stuff that we were looking for in 2023. Now that we’re a few weeks into the year, you’ve had a chance to kind of digest some of the stuff that’s going on or whatever, any revisions to what you think may or may not happen in 2023? Any revisions into your broad outlook of the industry here in 2023?
Dustin Gouker (25:25):
No. First I want to say, I wish Adam had gone with all ’N SYNC songs for the H2s if we’re going to critique the story. We have one ’N SYNC song in an H2.
Adam Candee (25:33):
I did go with one. I did.
Dustin Gouker (25:36):
I would’ve tried a way to make all of them. Also, great picture. One of my enduring legacies at LSR is great pictures with a couple of these stories were love fests. Anyway, yes, I agree with most of what’s in here, for sure. Disruption and these big guys is, again, what I, is this going to happen or not? This is what I keep coming back to is, Fanatics has put a lot of resources and, arguably, has the best chance at disrupting the market, I think. Is that going to happen? As I sit here, I don’t know. Despite all this will for them to get into sports betting, I still am a seller on the idea that people, because they buy hats and jerseys from Fanatics, that they’re going to instantly turn into sports bettors. I don’t, but if they have a great product, they do other marketing, sure, they can get there.
It’s fascinating. Yeah, whatever ESPN does, whatever 365 does, can anybody disrupt, really disrupt the market? I think that’s the list of who can really disrupt. It’s hard to see anybody further down the totem pole or the pecking order or whatever to really disrupt DraftKings and FanDuel or any of the top four or so, this year. So definitely interested there. I mean, the state map, the map of who can legalize, it looks challenging right now. Yes, Texas, we talked about it, some positive momentum it seems like. But there are problems almost anywhere else where you see sports betting coming up. This is not … we are used to just states legalizing it, these last several states that are really considering it seriously, that move the needle, I don’t know. It’s like, there are problems in all of them, between stakeholders who are involved, to the machinations of the legislatures.
So, if Texas doesn’t get done and we’re looking at a market where it’s not really going to expand for sports betting, the eyes turn back to California, things like that, where is the growth going to come from? And that is where, it then gets into what Sam said: If you’re not going to be able to launch the new markets, what’s your value proposition, and where are you finding growth? So, it is all fascinating. It all comes together, and it’ll be really interesting to see where all these companies end up and where states land on the legalization map this year. Again, Texas is by far the biggest prize. And all the conversations in the background are all about Texas because that, like I said, California, off the table for now, Florida, off the table for now. So where is it going to happen? This is where the push is going to happen.
Matt Brown (28:05):
Adam, now that we’re a few weeks into January, I mean, I don’t know about you, but for me, I truly miss MaximBet. It was such a big part of everything we talked about here on the podcast and everything that was written over on LSR. There’s so much ink and time that was spent on Maxim. RIP MaximBet; we hardly knew you.
Adam Candee (28:26):
You know, a couple years ago I had an invite, when the Super Bowl was in LA, to the MaximBet party, and I didn’t go. And I’ll always wonder what could have been.
Matt Brown (28:39):
You could have been the spokesperson for the now-defunct MaximBet. It could have been you.
Adam Candee (28:44):
I could have been drinking very sugary drinks and hanging out with starlets who had no idea why they were there.
Matt Brown (28:51):
It was amazing. Yes, MaximBet, I can’t even tell you what anything looked like on the app. I’ve downloaded every app on the face of the planet. I couldn’t even tell you anything about it. Guys, everything we do here, absolutely free. So, we do appreciate asking nothing from you other than a subscribe, a rate, a review, if you’re listening to the audio version. If you’re over on the YouTube channel, just hit that subscribe button down below. Give us a thumbs up; that really does help. And that’s all we are asking from you here. If you want to follow Dustin on the Twitter machine, @DustinGouker. If you want to follow Adam, that is @AdamCandee, two E’s no Y. For Adam, for Dustin, I’m Matt. Talk to you guys next week.